Re: How to create Meaningful Primary Keys? JUST SAY NO TO MEANINGFUL POINTERS!

From: John Armstrong (siberia..mail.com)
Date: Mon Feb 02 2009 - 09:57:43 EST

  • Next message: Matt Kerr: "Re: How to create Meaningful Primary Keys? JUST SAY NO TO MEANINGFUL POINTERS!"

    I made this mistake once. We spent a LOT of money getting rid of them and in
    our case using a meaningful primary key actually stalled our business for
    the few months it took to get rid of them.
    Don't Do It!

    J

    On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:22 AM, Pierre Lavignotte <
    pierre.lavignott..mail.com> wrote:

    > > Do poeple agree w/ me here?
    >
    > I do !
    >
    > All my tables have an autogenerated integer ID. I just need to read it to
    > point a specific row but I do NOT define it in Cayenne Modeler because
    > (until now) each time you have to re-engineer you DB schema you lose all
    > the
    > fields you have manually designed and I don't want these fields to be
    > writable.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Cordialement,
    > Pierre Lavignotte
    > Ingénieur Conception & Développement
    > http://pierre.lavignotte.googlepages.com
    >
    >
    > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Eric Lazarus <ericllazaru..ahoo.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > I can't let this point(er) go buy: JUST SAY NO TO MEANINGFUL POINTERS!
    > >
    > > There are BIG problems with having meaningful primary keys in general in
    > > terms of keeping your program growing and useful long term. When you can
    > > avoid it, avoid it... and when YOU are designing the underlying database
    > > from scratch, I think you can almost always avoid it. Putting meaning in
    > the
    > > pointers is often the reason that a system needs to be re-written or
    > pitched
    > > and replaced.
    > >
    > > A client of mine had to replace an existing application because they had
    > > used four budget product codes as part of a pointer field and could no
    > > longer represent the number of products in four digits. Cost huge $ to
    > > upgrade to SAP...
    > >
    > > Here is another example, a bad choose made by apple early on, putting
    > data
    > > into what amounts to a pointer:
    > >
    > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_memory_management
    > >
    > > So, now it seems that the name and DOB of each person is not going to
    > > change. Later it turns out that they do change under some situations and
    > now
    > > you have to write big hacks to deal with it.
    > >
    > > Just say no to meaning in pointers! Keep pointers STUPID! Meaningless bit
    > > squences make great pointers in OO programs. That's my view.
    > >
    > > Of course rules are made to be broken and, when the DB exists already and
    > > is used by a big pile of existing code, you likely have no choice but in
    > > other situations, try to avoid meaningfulness in pointers.
    > >
    > > Do poeple agree w/ me here?
    > >
    > > Eric
    > > +1 (917) 589-6579
    > >
    > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Pierre Lavignotte <pierre.lavignott..mail.com>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > From: Pierre Lavignotte <pierre.lavignott..mail.com>
    > > Subject: Re: How to create Meaningful Primary Keys?
    > > To: use..ayenne.apache.org
    > > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:28 AM
    > >
    > > I don't think his question is about sequence usage but about selecting
    > rows
    > > with specific PK values...
    > >
    > > Cordialement,
    > > Pierre Lavignotte
    > > Ingénieur Conception & Développement
    > > http://pierre.lavignotte.googlepages.com
    > >
    > >
    > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Alessio Giovanni Baroni <
    > > alessiogiovanni.baron..mail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > > It's all ok. But, you are sure that in Entity screen, you are selected
    > > > "Custom Sequence" on the "PK Generation Strategy"?
    > > > If you do it, AND you add a filed relative to a pk column, you can
    > > handling
    > > > the keys, without the cayenne's control.
    > > >
    > > > Hi.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > 2009/2/2 Νίκος Παράσχου <niparas..mail.com>
    > > >
    > > > > First of all thank you for your replies.
    > > > >
    > > > > I have the following table:
    > > > >
    > > > > Vehicle (
    > > > > plate_num CHAR(10) NOT NULL,
    > > > > mixed_weight DOUBLE PRECISION NOT NULL,
    > > > > type CHAR(30) NOT NULL,
    > > > > manufacturer CHAR(20),
    > > > > PRIMARY KEY (plate_num)
    > > > > )
    > > > >
    > > > > In Cayenne Modeller I have the dbEntity "vehicle" with all
    > > the above
    > > > > attributes (plate_num is check as PK). There is also the objEntity
    > > > > "Vehicle" with all the above attributes except the PK
    > > (plate_num).
    > > > >
    > > > > I want to select the type of the vehicle with plate_num =
    > > "AHZ-4141".
    > > > >
    > > > > Could you please post some code samples? I have tried so many things
    > > > > (with DataObjectUtils too) but still no success.
    > > > >
    > > > > Thank you,
    > > > > Nikos
    > > > >
    > > > > Στις 02-02-2009, ημέρα Δευ, και ώρα 12:49 +0100,
    > > ο/η Pierre Lavignotte
    > > > > έγραψε:
    > > > > > Hi Nikos,
    > > > > >
    > > > > > If you need PK for all your tables, then maybe you need to
    > > generate
    > > > them.
    > > > > > But if you only need to use them for a couple tables then you
    > > should
    > > > look
    > > > > at
    > > > > > DataObjectUtils class.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Cheers,
    > > > > > Pierre
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Cordialement,
    > > > > > Pierre Lavignotte
    > > > > > Ingénieur Conception & Développement
    > > > > > http://pierre.lavignotte.googlepages.com
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Νίκος Παράσχου
    > > <niparas..mail.com>
    > > > > wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > Hello,
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > It is the first time I am using cayenne and I have some
    > > questions
    > > > > > > regarding the primary keys.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > What I want to do is select some rows of a table where the
    > > PK has a
    > > > > > > specific value. The problem is I can't access the PK. I
    > > can specify
    > > > > > > qualifiers only with the non-PK columns. The PKs I am using
    > > have some
    > > > > > > meaning (they are not just numbers) so it is very important
    > > to be
    > > > able
    > > > > > > to use them.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > How can I add the PK to the fields of the Object Entities?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > In this page
    > > > > http://cayenne.apache.org/doc20/primary-key-generation.html
    > > > > > > the answer is to create a Meaningful Primary Key.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > How can I create Meaningful Primary Keys?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Are there any security issues when using Meaningful Primary
    > > Keys?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Thank you for your time,
    > > > > > > Nikos
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >



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