Re: Why don't we use version-based optimistic locking?

From: Mike Kienenberger (mkienen..mail.com)
Date: Mon Aug 29 2005 - 16:25:01 EDT

  • Next message: Gili: "Re: Why don't we use version-based optimistic locking?"

    As I said above, we're very much in favor of offering the choices, but
    it probably won't happen until an end-user who needs it implements it
    and submits the patches.

    On 8/29/05, Gili <cowwo..bs.darktech.org> wrote:
    >
    > Unfortunately, image data is part of the "uniqueness" definition in my
    > table. An image also has a hashcode associated with it so what I first
    > do is compare hashcodes and only if the hashcode matches do I compare
    > the full data stream.
    >
    > With Hibernate, I only compare data fields when inserting a new image
    > into the table (to ensure I'm not inserting the same image twice). Once
    > inserted, I assume optimistic locking will detect update collisions but
    > do so without having to compare the entire data field.
    >
    > For my particular use-case, the performance benefit of versioning-based
    > optimistic locking far outweighs the danger of external modification. I
    > make sure to only manipulate the values using applications stacked on
    > top of the ORM.
    >
    > With your permission, I'd like to file a RFE for version-based
    > optimistic locking and hopefully we can offer users a choice between the
    > two methods.
    >
    > Gili
    >
    > Mike Kienenberger wrote:
    > > Note that you can pick and choose your optimistic locking fields.
    > > If you don't need to compare the blob to guarantee "uniqueness" (for
    > > whatever that means to your application), then don't set it as an
    > > optimistic locking field.
    > >
    > > This can also allow you to simulate timestamp or versioning manually,
    > > or we'd happily accept patches to support versioning or timestamping
    > > seemlessly. :)
    > >
    > > Again, though, it's not optimistic locking that's requiring the
    > > backing caches. OL simply makes use of what's already there.
    > > (Actually, maybe OL does require an additional retained cache you
    > > might be able to drop -- I can't remember).
    > >
    > > -Mike
    > >
    > > On 8/29/05, Gili <cowwo..bs.darktech.org> wrote:
    > >
    > >> I have a table "image" in my database. One of the columns is a blob for
    > >>containing the image data (500k to 2MB). Using the current approach, not
    > >>only will memory usage be extremely high but also commiting will be
    > >>extremely slow because we'll have to now compare the value of the blob.
    > >>I don't think adding streaming blobs will help here either because the
    > >>current optimistic locking mechanism requires us to read and compare the
    > >>full contents of the field anyway.
    > >>
    > >> Yes, I see your point regarding the danger if the table is modified
    > >>using an external tool but I guess the assumption is that the
    > >>performance benefits of version-based optimistic locking far outweigh
    > >>the potential safety issues. You just have to ensure to use your ORM for
    > >>all your transaction or if you decide on using "unsafe" operations
    > >>(SQLTemplate or other external methods) you must be aware of the
    > >>potential consequences.
    > >>
    > >> It is likely we're coming at this from different requirements though.
    > >>I'm really concerned about scalability issues with Cayenne because I
    > >>plan on dealing with a massive amounts of images streamed from my DB
    > >>while your average webapp operations do not involve this amount of data.
    > >>
    > >>Gili
    > >>
    > >>Gentry, Michael (Contractor) wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>Well, I personally prefer the way Cayenne does optimistic locking. I
    > >>>don't want to lock on a meaningless piece of data. Let's face it, which
    > >>>data is most important, the user-entered purchasePrice or somewhat
    > >>>arbitrary recordVersionNumber? It is far to easy to update a record (in
    > >>>a production support role or external database utility, etc) and forget
    > >>>to increment the version, which could have bad consequences as a result.
    > >>>
    > >>>In your "flush to database" comment, that's where you would be doing a
    > >>>dataContext.commitChanges(). This starts a transaction, flushes changes
    > >>>to the database, and ends the transaction. At this point, assuming it
    > >>>succeeded, the dataContext is in sync with the database. Rolling back
    > >>>from here shouldn't really doing anything (you are back as far as you
    > >>>can go). With nested data contexts (not sure how close this is to being
    > >>>functional), you'll be able to commit changes in a child data context to
    > >>>a parent data context, which will still allow you to rollback the parent
    > >>>to the pre-commit of the child changes (I think -- Mike/Andrus correct
    > >>>me if I am wrong there).
    > >>>
    > >>>There's not a lot here, but perhaps it would help a bit?
    > >>>
    > >>>http://www.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/CAY/Optimistic+Locking+Exp
    > >>>lained
    > >>>
    > >>>Caching the original database value is pretty important to how this
    > >>>works. Yes, it takes more memory, but is vastly more safe.
    > >>>
    > >>>/dev/mrg
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>-----Original Message-----
    > >>>From: Gili [mailto:cowwo..bs.darktech.org]
    > >>>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 2:32 PM
    > >>>To: cayenne-use..bjectstyle.org
    > >>>Subject: Why don't we use version-based optimistic locking?
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>Hi,
    > >>>
    > >>> Just curious why we chose to implement optimistic locking like
    > >>>we did.
    > >>>The reason I ask is that I want to be able to:
    > >>>
    > >>>add 1000 objects
    > >>>flush to database
    > >>>add 1000 objects
    > >>>...
    > >>>many objects later...
    > >>>dataContext.commit()
    > >>>
    > >>> now, I should be able to dataContext.rollback() at any time and
    > >>>this
    > >>>should undo all changes all the way back to the beginning of the
    > >>>context. I've been talking to Mike on IRC and he says that to his
    > >>>knowledge it is unlikely we can implement the above behavior because
    > >>>right now optimistic locking caches the original attribute value so that
    > >>>
    > >>>at commit time we can compare it to the DB version and throw an
    > >>>exception if optimistic locking failed. This incurs heavy memory usage.
    > >>>
    > >>> Now, if we were only remembering a version/timestamp per row, it
    > >>>would
    > >>>be much easier to implement this. I ask because Hibernate can already
    > >>>support this behavior using this code:
    > >>>
    > >>>// execute 1000 times
    > >>>session.saveOrUpdate(object);
    > >>>...
    > >>>session.flush();
    > >>>session.clear();
    > >>>...
    > >>>// many objects later
    > >>>...
    > >>>session.commit() or session.rollback() will go all the way past the
    > >>>session.flush()/clear() calls.
    > >>>
    > >>> I am sorry for all these questions but I am rather new to all of
    > >>>this :)
    > >>>
    > >>>Thank you,
    > >>>Gili
    > >>
    > >>--
    > >>http://www.desktopbeautifier.com/
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    >
    > --
    > http://www.desktopbeautifier.com/
    >



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