Re: Yet another optimistic locking question

From: Gili (cowwo..bs.darktech.org)
Date: Thu Sep 01 2005 - 11:57:29 EDT

  • Next message: Gentry, Michael \(Contractor\): "RE: Yet another optimistic locking question"

            Yes. You would. The mask is meant to act like a hash of sorts. It'll
    tell you if something was not touched but just because something was
    touched doesn't mean it was modified :)

            Ok, I'm off for lunch. I'll rejoin this conversation when I get back :)

    Gili

    Mike Kienenberger wrote:
    > Ok. I see.
    > Wouldn't you still want to also do the compare after the mask filtered
    > out things since it may be a case of multiple updates that leave the
    > data matching the original state?
    >
    > On 9/1/05, Gentry, Michael (Contractor) <michael_gentr..anniemae.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I believe he is talking about the SET clause, not WHERE clause, of an
    >>UPDATE statement (we've veered off optimistic locking).
    >>
    >>Cayenne does indeed do comparisons to determine what to include in the
    >>SET clause. It's been a few months since I looked at it, but I think it
    >>brute-force compares every single attribute, so it is possible some kind
    >>of mask to exclude things that never had set* called on them could be
    >>useful. Of course, in a web application where you might have your
    >>object bound to fields in the GUI, set* would be called all the time,
    >>even if nothing changed.
    >>
    >>I think this is worth discussing, but it might end up being a wash for
    >>most things. For most objects, doing the comparisons isn't terribly
    >>time consuming. Of course, for a large DataContext, this could slow
    >>things down, too.
    >>
    >>/dev/mrg
    >>
    >>
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>From: Mike Kienenberger [mailto:mkienen..mail.com]
    >>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:34 AM
    >>To: cayenne-use..bjectstyle.org
    >>Subject: Re: Yet another optimistic locking question
    >>
    >>
    >>No, that doesn't work. The "checking" part is executed as part of the
    >>database operation.
    >>The database "checks" if the value has changed as part of the update
    >>statement, not the java code. We supply the original values as part
    >>of the query, and the database does the comparison. Optimistic
    >>locking in general isn't specific to cayenne so the process is well
    >>understood and probably as optimized as it can be. Optimizations to
    >>the concept are the timestamp and versioning alternatives of
    >>optimistic locking where you only lock on a timestamp (assumes that
    >>any database operation must occur at different timestamps) or versions
    >>(which forces the caller to maintain versioning). The downsides of
    >>these optimizations are that they take up extra database space (on
    >>field per table) and that they consider "differences that make no
    >>difference" as a difference.
    >>
    >>Ie, attribute locking works even if, in the mean time, someone changed
    >>a field value then changed it back. But versioning/timestamping will
    >>fail even if the current state is the same as the original perceived
    >>state.
    >>
    >>The downsides of attribute locking is that it requires more bandwidth
    >>(multiple where clauses transmitted) and processing on the database
    >>(multiple where clauses computed)
    >>
    >>On 9/1/05, Gili <cowwo..bs.darktech.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Here is an idea for us to further optimize the process. Can we
    >>
    >>perhaps
    >>
    >>>detect whether the user ever modified a field without comparing the
    >>
    >>two
    >>
    >>>states? For example, if one of my fields is a large BLOB (byte[]) then
    >>>when I get() that array I could concievable modify it. So then what
    >>
    >>I'm
    >>
    >>>thinking is if the user ever invoked get() or set() on that field, we
    >>>toggle the appropriate value in a BitSet to indicate we should look at
    >>>it in step 3. If the user never touched a field, we can very quickly
    >>>(regardless of its size) know that it has not been modified without
    >>>comparing the actual contents.
    >>>
    >>> Using a BitSet this would be very cheap to do as well. What do
    >>
    >>you think?
    >>
    >>>Gili
    >>>
    >>>Mike Kienenberger wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Yep!
    >>>>
    >>>>On 9/1/05, Gili <cowwo..bs.darktech.org> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> And I forgot to mention, in step 3 I assume we look at the
    >>
    >>return value
    >>
    >>>>>from the DB and if we expected 1 change and got 0 this means we
    >>
    >>detect
    >>
    >>>>>that our DB representation was out of date and we throw an
    >>
    >>exception,
    >>
    >>>>>correct?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Gili
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Mike Kienenberger wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Yeah, it's basically an atomic db operation that says UPDATE set
    >>>>>>values WHERE all fields marked for optimistic locking haven't
    >>
    >>changed
    >>
    >>>>>>values from the last time we read them.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>On 9/1/05, Gili <cowwo..bs.darktech.org> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Oh my. It all makes so much more sense now... So if I
    >>
    >>understand it
    >>
    >>>>>>>correctly,
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>1) We store the perceived DB value somewhere
    >>>>>>>2) We store the cached (maybe modified) value elsewhere
    >>>>>>>3) When a commit occurs, we compare the objects in 1 and 2, then
    >>
    >>issue a
    >>
    >>>>>>>UPDATE only for fields which have changed.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Cool :) This also sounds quite efficient to me.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Thank you,
    >>>>>>>Gili
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Gentry, Michael (Contractor) wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Optimistic locking never locks the row in the database (it is
    >>>>>>>>optimistic). Read:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>>http://www.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/CAY/Optimistic+Lockin
    >>
    >>g+Exp
    >>
    >>>>>>>>lained
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>It explains how Cayenne can ensure that no changes occurred
    >>
    >>between the
    >>
    >>>>>>>>SELECT and UPDATE phase. If you still have questions I'll try to
    >>
    >>answer
    >>
    >>>>>>>>them.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Thanks,
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>/dev/mrg
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
    >>>>>>>>From: Gili [mailto:cowwo..bs.darktech.org]
    >>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:06 AM
    >>>>>>>>To: cayenne-use..bjectstyle.org
    >>>>>>>>Subject: Yet another optimistic locking question
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> A question about how optimistic locking is currently
    >>>>>>>>implemented. Do we
    >>>>>>>>implement it like this?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>1) Lock row
    >>>>>>>>2) Read row
    >>>>>>>>3) Compare read row to DataObject version of row
    >>>>>>>>4) If values mismatch, unlock the row and throw an exception
    >>>>>>>>5) If values match, continue with update and unlock row
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> or do we not lock the database at all? If we don't lock it
    >>
    >>at
    >>
    >>>>>>>>all, how
    >>>>>>>>can we ensure that no changes occur after step 3 but before step
    >>
    >>5?
    >>
    >>>>>>>>Thank you,
    >>>>>>>>Gili
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>--
    >>>>>>>http://www.desktopbeautifier.com/
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>--
    >>>>>http://www.desktopbeautifier.com/
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>--
    >>>http://www.desktopbeautifier.com/
    >>>
    >>
    >

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    http://www.desktopbeautifier.com/
    



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