Re: Wicket and Tapestry was: [Cayenne vs. EOF...]

From: Andrus Adamchik (andru..bjectstyle.org)
Date: Mon Feb 14 2005 - 13:48:41 EST

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    So they are being honest with their users... They must be new to the open
    source world :-)

    > From the user manual:
    >
    > "Although Wicket is a very convenient, efficient and powerful way to
    > code a web application, it almost certainly will consume more server
    > side resources (memory in particular) than most existing frameworks,
    > including JSP, Tapestry and JSF. In other words, the benefits of
    > Wicket are not achieved without a price. "
    >
    > "Since no significant applications have yet been written in Wicket,
    > performance characteristics of the toolkit are not yet well understood
    > and it is expected that Wicket may not be appropriate for web
    > applications which require especially high performance and/or which
    > must be highly available."
    >
    > Yikes......not exactly a great advertisement.
    >
    > e.
    >
    >
    > On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
    >
    >> Eric Schneider wrote:
    >>> Jonathan,
    >>> Does wicket have built-in state management similar to Tapestry? (i.e.
    >>> persistent page and component properties, form rewind, etc.).
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> eric
    >>
    >> I just checked the link out briefly; it does, indeed, have built-in
    >> state management. I just did a quick once over of the site, but, as
    >> far as I can tell, here are some of the key differences between the
    >> two frameworks:
    >>
    >> 1) Tapestry gives you the choice of going stateful (through the
    >> session) or stateless. In wicket, all applications seem to be always
    >> stateful (via the session). In return, it looks like the state
    >> management may be a bit more transparent (in most but not all aspects)
    >> in wicket than in tapestry.
    >>
    >> 2) Wicket components and pages consist of an html template (appears to
    >> be required) + a POJO class (also appears to be required). Tapestry
    >> components and pages consist of an html template (components may or
    >> may not have a template), a .jwc or .page (xml) configuration file,
    >> and a java class (optional). Thus, it looks like all configuration
    >> and wiring of objects to pages is done in java code in wicket, ala
    >> swing.
    >>
    >>
    >> 3) All template-backing java classes in wicket are POJO. In tapestry,
    >> you have to implement the IComponent interface or the IPage
    >> interface, which usually consists of extending one of several base
    >> classes. However, HLS appears to be looking into ways to change
    >> that, so, look for POJO page and component classes in tapestry in
    >> the future.
    >>
    >> Other notes:
    >>
    >> The quickstarter page mentions that they assume you have at least java
    >> 1.4 installed; I'm not sure if that means that wicket requires java
    >> 1.4, or if just the quickstarter kit requires it, but it's something
    >> to keep in mind.
    >>
    >> They make some claim about component libraries being worlds easier to
    >> put together than in tapestry of JSf. I can't speak for JSF, but
    >> tapestry component libraries are really pretty trivial to put
    >> together, so I think this is an exaggeration, personally.
    >>
    >> Both are available under the apache 2.0 license.
    >>
    >> I will stress the fact that I just did a pretty quick once over of the
    >> wicket site, so, take the post with grain of salt. =)
    >>
    >> Robert
    >>
    >>> On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Jonathan Carlson wrote:
    >>> Just to mention... Wicket is a Tapestry-like web framework that
    >>> hasn't reached 1.0 yet, but seems much simpler to learn than
    >>> Tapestry while still using a pure HTML markup like Tapestry.
    >>> When they get the UserDoc rewritten to reflect all the changes
    >>> they've made, it will be hard to beat. (IMHO :-) The original
    >>> creater worked at Sun on the Swing toolset (don't hold it against
    >>> him :-) and is a good documenter.
    >>> http://wicket.sf.net
    >>> - Jonathan P.S. No, I'm not a Wicket developer,
    >>> but I'm a Tapestry-approach
    >>> admirer who has been very pleased with how quickly I've become
    >>> productive with Wicket.
    >>> >>> michael_gentr..anniemae.com 2005-02-11 9:51:07 AM >>>
    >>> Just to beat on the drums some more, Cayenne is my new EOF. With
    >>> the 1.1 version, Cayenne really became capable of replacing EOF
    >>> (optimistic locking, etc) for my needs. The GUI modeler is
    >>> useful (compare to open source ORM frameworks). The framework
    >>> and
    >>> modeler
    >>> are under active development. Plus, you have the source code.
    >>> Let
    >>> me repeat: You have the source code! I've been able to step
    >>> through
    >>> the code in the Eclipse debugger to figure out what was going on
    >>> (usually my mistake, but sometimes you catch a Cayenne bug and
    >>> when
    >>> you report the problem, which you can do with great precision, it
    >>> gets fixed -- quickly). The mailing lists are great. There is
    >>> an energy here that is missing with EOF/WO.
    >>> I've started using Tapestry a bit, too. I'm by no means an
    >>>
    >>> expert,
    >>> but it seems to be WO-like. Has some nice things compared to WO,
    >>> but lacks some things in WO, too (can't reuse bindings is a big
    >>> annoyance). Cayenne works great inside Tapestry. Cayenne +
    >>> Tapestry + Tomcat: Free. Having the source code: Priceless.
    >>> /dev/mrg
    >>> -----Original Message-----
    >>> *From:* Dov Rosenberg [mailto:dov.rosenber..onviveon.com]
    >>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:52 PM
    >>> *To:* cayenne-use..bjectstyle.org
    >>> *Subject:* Re: Cayenne vs EOF: How to questions?
    >>> That is good to hear. How dramatic of a change is it to move from
    >>> EOF to Cayenne? Are you using Tapestry as well? Have you come
    >>> across
    >>> anything that has given you pause about Cayenne?
    >>> Thanks in advance
    >>> -- Dov Rosenberg
    >>> Conviveon Corporation
    >>> http://www.conviveon.com
    >>> On 2/10/05 6:37 PM, "Bryan Lewis" <brya..aine.rr.com> wrote: On
    >>> the first question, I'm currently converting several old apps
    >>> from WebObjects 4.5 to Cayenne and have had no trouble keeping
    >>> our old flattened relationships. See the user's guide:
    >>>
    >>> http://objectstyle.org/cayenne/modelerguide/modeling-object-layer/
    >>> flattenedrel.html
    >>> ----- Original Message -----
    >>> *From:* Dov Rosenberg <mailto:dov.rosenber..onviveon.com>
    >>> *To:* cayenne-use..bjectstyle.org *Sent:*
    >>> Thursday, February 10, 2005 5:52 PM
    >>> *Subject:* Cayenne vs EOF: How to questions?
    >>> A few questions on the capabilities of Cayenne as compared
    >>>
    >>> to Apple
    >>> EOF
    >>> 1. Does Cayenne support flattened relationships like EOF?
    >>> If so,
    >>> what is the equivalent? 2. I understand that Cayenne does
    >>> not currently support
    >>> EOPrototypes to make it easier to switch between databases, what
    >>>
    >>> is
    >>> the Cayenne preferred method for supporting multiple databases?
    >>> Seems like it has something to do with DataMaps. Not sure though
    >>>
    >>> 3. How can I programmatically swap out my connection dictionary
    >>>
    >>> at
    >>> application startup? I.e. Allow me to store userid/password in
    >>> separate file from the cayenne.xml and update them when the app
    >>> starts up. 4. Is there a hook for generating primary keys
    >>> on the client side
    >>> similar to what we currently do with a DatabaseContextDelegate
    >>> and
    >>> our own guid generator? 5. Is there any Cayenne support
    >>> for doing lightweight, high volume
    >>> SQL processing (i.e. For batch updates)? EOF has too much
    >>> overhead
    >>> for large amounts of sql processing in batch mode. Ideally a
    >>> smarter version of RawRowsForSQL that doesn’t create all the
    >>> objects in an object graph.
    >>> Thanks in advance.
    >>>
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