Re: Wicket and Tapestry was: [Cayenne vs. EOF...]

From: Joćo Paulo Vasconcellos (vasconcello..mail.com)
Date: Wed Feb 16 2005 - 11:19:26 EST

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    On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:48:41 -0500 (EST), Andrus Adamchik
    <andru..bjectstyle.org> wrote:
    > So they are being honest with their users... They must be new to the open
    > source world :-)

    I'll keep that to my fortune file :-D

    >
    > > From the user manual:
    > >
    > > "Although Wicket is a very convenient, efficient and powerful way to
    > > code a web application, it almost certainly will consume more server
    > > side resources (memory in particular) than most existing frameworks,
    > > including JSP, Tapestry and JSF. In other words, the benefits of
    > > Wicket are not achieved without a price. "
    > >
    > > "Since no significant applications have yet been written in Wicket,
    > > performance characteristics of the toolkit are not yet well understood
    > > and it is expected that Wicket may not be appropriate for web
    > > applications which require especially high performance and/or which
    > > must be highly available."
    > >
    > > Yikes......not exactly a great advertisement.
    > >
    > > e.
    > >
    > >
    > > On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
    > >
    > >> Eric Schneider wrote:
    > >>> Jonathan,
    > >>> Does wicket have built-in state management similar to Tapestry? (i.e.
    > >>> persistent page and component properties, form rewind, etc.).
    > >>> Thanks,
    > >>> eric
    > >>
    > >> I just checked the link out briefly; it does, indeed, have built-in
    > >> state management. I just did a quick once over of the site, but, as
    > >> far as I can tell, here are some of the key differences between the
    > >> two frameworks:
    > >>
    > >> 1) Tapestry gives you the choice of going stateful (through the
    > >> session) or stateless. In wicket, all applications seem to be always
    > >> stateful (via the session). In return, it looks like the state
    > >> management may be a bit more transparent (in most but not all aspects)
    > >> in wicket than in tapestry.
    > >>
    > >> 2) Wicket components and pages consist of an html template (appears to
    > >> be required) + a POJO class (also appears to be required). Tapestry
    > >> components and pages consist of an html template (components may or
    > >> may not have a template), a .jwc or .page (xml) configuration file,
    > >> and a java class (optional). Thus, it looks like all configuration
    > >> and wiring of objects to pages is done in java code in wicket, ala
    > >> swing.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> 3) All template-backing java classes in wicket are POJO. In tapestry,
    > >> you have to implement the IComponent interface or the IPage
    > >> interface, which usually consists of extending one of several base
    > >> classes. However, HLS appears to be looking into ways to change
    > >> that, so, look for POJO page and component classes in tapestry in
    > >> the future.
    > >>
    > >> Other notes:
    > >>
    > >> The quickstarter page mentions that they assume you have at least java
    > >> 1.4 installed; I'm not sure if that means that wicket requires java
    > >> 1.4, or if just the quickstarter kit requires it, but it's something
    > >> to keep in mind.
    > >>
    > >> They make some claim about component libraries being worlds easier to
    > >> put together than in tapestry of JSf. I can't speak for JSF, but
    > >> tapestry component libraries are really pretty trivial to put
    > >> together, so I think this is an exaggeration, personally.
    > >>
    > >> Both are available under the apache 2.0 license.
    > >>
    > >> I will stress the fact that I just did a pretty quick once over of the
    > >> wicket site, so, take the post with grain of salt. =)
    > >>
    > >> Robert
    > >>
    > >>> On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Jonathan Carlson wrote:
    > >>> Just to mention... Wicket is a Tapestry-like web framework that
    > >>> hasn't reached 1.0 yet, but seems much simpler to learn than
    > >>> Tapestry while still using a pure HTML markup like Tapestry.
    > >>> When they get the UserDoc rewritten to reflect all the changes
    > >>> they've made, it will be hard to beat. (IMHO :-) The original
    > >>> creater worked at Sun on the Swing toolset (don't hold it against
    > >>> him :-) and is a good documenter.
    > >>> http://wicket.sf.net
    > >>> - Jonathan P.S. No, I'm not a Wicket developer,
    > >>> but I'm a Tapestry-approach
    > >>> admirer who has been very pleased with how quickly I've become
    > >>> productive with Wicket.
    > >>> >>> michael_gentr..anniemae.com 2005-02-11 9:51:07 AM >>>
    > >>> Just to beat on the drums some more, Cayenne is my new EOF. With
    > >>> the 1.1 version, Cayenne really became capable of replacing EOF
    > >>> (optimistic locking, etc) for my needs. The GUI modeler is
    > >>> useful (compare to open source ORM frameworks). The framework
    > >>> and
    > >>> modeler
    > >>> are under active development. Plus, you have the source code.
    > >>> Let
    > >>> me repeat: You have the source code! I've been able to step
    > >>> through
    > >>> the code in the Eclipse debugger to figure out what was going on
    > >>> (usually my mistake, but sometimes you catch a Cayenne bug and
    > >>> when
    > >>> you report the problem, which you can do with great precision, it
    > >>> gets fixed -- quickly). The mailing lists are great. There is
    > >>> an energy here that is missing with EOF/WO.
    > >>> I've started using Tapestry a bit, too. I'm by no means an
    > >>>
    > >>> expert,
    > >>> but it seems to be WO-like. Has some nice things compared to WO,
    > >>> but lacks some things in WO, too (can't reuse bindings is a big
    > >>> annoyance). Cayenne works great inside Tapestry. Cayenne +
    > >>> Tapestry + Tomcat: Free. Having the source code: Priceless.
    > >>> /dev/mrg
    > >>> -----Original Message-----
    > >>> *From:* Dov Rosenberg [mailto:dov.rosenber..onviveon.com]
    > >>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:52 PM
    > >>> *To:* cayenne-use..bjectstyle.org
    > >>> *Subject:* Re: Cayenne vs EOF: How to questions?
    > >>> That is good to hear. How dramatic of a change is it to move from
    > >>> EOF to Cayenne? Are you using Tapestry as well? Have you come
    > >>> across
    > >>> anything that has given you pause about Cayenne?
    > >>> Thanks in advance
    > >>> -- Dov Rosenberg
    > >>> Conviveon Corporation
    > >>> http://www.conviveon.com
    > >>> On 2/10/05 6:37 PM, "Bryan Lewis" <brya..aine.rr.com> wrote: On
    > >>> the first question, I'm currently converting several old apps
    > >>> from WebObjects 4.5 to Cayenne and have had no trouble keeping
    > >>> our old flattened relationships. See the user's guide:
    > >>>
    > >>> http://objectstyle.org/cayenne/modelerguide/modeling-object-layer/
    > >>> flattenedrel.html
    > >>> ----- Original Message -----
    > >>> *From:* Dov Rosenberg <mailto:dov.rosenber..onviveon.com>
    > >>> *To:* cayenne-use..bjectstyle.org *Sent:*
    > >>> Thursday, February 10, 2005 5:52 PM
    > >>> *Subject:* Cayenne vs EOF: How to questions?
    > >>> A few questions on the capabilities of Cayenne as compared
    > >>>
    > >>> to Apple
    > >>> EOF
    > >>> 1. Does Cayenne support flattened relationships like EOF?
    > >>> If so,
    > >>> what is the equivalent? 2. I understand that Cayenne does
    > >>> not currently support
    > >>> EOPrototypes to make it easier to switch between databases, what
    > >>>
    > >>> is
    > >>> the Cayenne preferred method for supporting multiple databases?
    > >>> Seems like it has something to do with DataMaps. Not sure though
    > >>>
    > >>> 3. How can I programmatically swap out my connection dictionary
    > >>>
    > >>> at
    > >>> application startup? I.e. Allow me to store userid/password in
    > >>> separate file from the cayenne.xml and update them when the app
    > >>> starts up. 4. Is there a hook for generating primary keys
    > >>> on the client side
    > >>> similar to what we currently do with a DatabaseContextDelegate
    > >>> and
    > >>> our own guid generator? 5. Is there any Cayenne support
    > >>> for doing lightweight, high volume
    > >>> SQL processing (i.e. For batch updates)? EOF has too much
    > >>> overhead
    > >>> for large amounts of sql processing in batch mode. Ideally a
    > >>> smarter version of RawRowsForSQL that doesn't create all the
    > >>> objects in an object graph.
    > >>> Thanks in advance.
    > >>>
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    >

    -- 
    Joćo Paulo Vasconcellos
    ICQ: 123-953-864
    



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